Re: [vserver] shrink wrap it

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From: klavs klavsen (
Date: Sat Feb 09 2002 - 07:17:20 EST

On Sat, 2002-02-09 at 02:19, Vlad wrote:
> > There's a binary kernel for vserver? well i'll just compile my own, if I
> > decide that vserver is the best for me :-)
> > ease of use, isn't enough, if it doesn't have the necessary features.
> > freevsd comes with some webpage management utilities. sounds pretty
> > nice.
> Why is it that every few months people troll up from out of nowhere and
> expect a full comparison of features between two projects.
> At $80/box you can go to Best Buy and compare Mandrake and Redhat.

I didn't expect anything. I just figured, that users of the vserver
project would have a reasoning for using it, that I would like to know,
as I'm looking into the project myself. Also users of one project such
as vserver, are almost certain to have reviewed other solutions that try
to solve the same problems, and thus I hoped that these people would
share their reasoning for choosing vserver. I can't see the harm in
asking people why they chose one, over the other.

> However on a free
> mailing list, especially for a project provided free of charge, it makes
> for little common sense to show up and start insulting the users and
> developers of this code.
I'm sorry if I insulted you, that was not my intent. I think you've
heavily misunderstood what I was asking about.

> For the record, vserver has the most documentation you will find for a
> project of this caliber and is very straight forward. There is a detailed
> installation doc on the web page
Nice to know.
> Now on to flaming:
> Part of dealing with open source projects is doing the research and
> figuring things out on your own. Perhaps thats why its not in a shrink
> wrapped box with a choice of 8 different GUI's to hold your hand. It
> involves research, debugging, and even writing code on your own.
I must disagree. If that were so, there wouldn't be as many Linux users
as there are today.If a project reaches a broad user-base (including
"dumb" users), it will almost certainly gain from that, in many ways.

I'm not the great programmer. I've dabbled a little, but haven't coded
much the last few years (except for shell scripts and sysadmin perl
scripts), as I've been working as a sysadmin.

My reason for looking for a project like vserver, is to find an easy and
secure way to implement a very secure system. F.ex. if I install a
server for a costumer, it would be nice to know, that their services run
on a vserver partition, so that if a hacker got in, the measures on the
root-server would be able to detect that, and the hacker would not be
able to stop this detection.This way I can sleep easy, even though I've
given the costumer full access to the vserver. Otherwise I would have to
be over them, hoping they remembered to update for each vulnerability
and so on. Ease of mind, is a very important thing for me as a System
Administrator and Consultant - this also means a lot to the
User/Costumer. When I leave the costumer, I know they are gonna do dumb
things, I just want to deliver a system, that somehow protects them as
well as possible against this. So that they would get an email saying -
Whoops.. call a qualified technician - you're in trouble.
it's measures like this, that will enable small companys to make use of
Open Source Systems, and it is usability like this that will lead to
Open Source Conquering the world :-)

> is hiring an incompetent consultant or Microsoft, pick your poison. If you
> expect free help I suggest you ask for it with plenty of detail and
> outmost respect for the people that you're expecting assistance from.
> Derogatory comments about development progress or inconvenient mailing
> list are not a good way to ask for help.
For the record, I've been a member of SSLUG for many years, and I've
helped many people. SSLUG is ONLY about helping people for free. We do't
discuss development or anything like that here. try doing this search on
google ""klavs klavsen"" you'lle get more than 1400
hits. Each of them being me helping someone with their specific problem.
So please drop the crap about, if you expect free help. I hope only to
get, what I myself give out, as should anyone.

Apperantly I didn't write humbly enough for your liking. If you think my
questions could/should be taken as an insult, I suggest you stop, and
try asking me if I meant to insult you. Don't just expect that I did.
What you appereantly think is an insult, I see as a straight forward

 Half-assed questions about lids
> and "standard kernel"
that's not half assed. LIDS does have very good functionality, that one
might think could be very good to combine with the qualities of f.ex.
vserver. As I can see from the other answers, I'm not the only one
thinking this.
>just show you didn't even bother to look at the
> homepage; If you did you'd notice that there is a changelog page: 10
> updates in 3 months.
I have seen the homepage. I also know that it took the Linux kernel many
years to get where it is now! ie. stability and performance quality
software takes time to develop. And I couldn't see any place, saying
when this project started, and it only was at 0.10 because it was
release as a stable project with release 0.1. don't know why anyone
would think a v0.10 should be considered stable and production ready
software. Most people change versions to a v1.x when it's stable.

> and further sarcasm:
> I think the real problem here is that the project web page doesn't have
> enough pictures or blinking "NEW" buttons. Reading turns everyone off, and
> just like back in high school, its easier to just find someone that has
> read the book already that can summarize it than for you to actually put
> in some effort. Damn words, they are everywhere!
Haven't you gotten enough of yourself. i have. damn you are not really a
people person are you?. What kind of half assed, crap remark is that?

Klavs Klavsen

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